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Post by The Commish on Feb 14, 2008 23:00:34 GMT -5
I stated earlier that I wanted to have actual listed players at starting positions, meaning I don't want people drafting 5 first basemen and then just plugging them in at 3b and the OF.
cardinalsgm and I spoke about this and he said this might turn some people off, so a compromise was suggested.
1) You can make a position change with a player to start at another position if he is rated 75 there or above (in the skills section it will give you number ratings at different positions in the field).
2) Players that are DH's first can move to the position they are best rated for (like David Ortiz or Frank Thomas at 1b.) But you will have to live with the fielding errors, etc. of the player at that position. There is also a chance that starting a player out of his naturally assigned position may also increase his likeliness to get injured.
3) Changing a player to another position will result in me physically making a position change in game for that player, which may (and most likely will) drop that player's OVR rating. It won't affect the hitting side, but certainly his defensive ratings.
4) Though I am allowing this ability, I do not want to see this abused. Moves like that may have been necessary in the old league when your picks were just given to you, but you are actually selecting your players. You should choose them wisely.
Any thoughts on this?
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Post by Angels GM on Feb 15, 2008 15:37:44 GMT -5
At most, I would only allow 2 position changes per team to keep that from getting out of hand and to keep it simpler for the commish.
As he stated, we're all drafting our 25 man rosters and if we dont fill each position while doing so is our own fault. Just my two cents on the matter and looking forward to hearing what other GM's think.
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Post by lakrsfn24 on Feb 15, 2008 22:22:58 GMT -5
Yes, position changes sound good but I'd keep it very limited.
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Post by brewcrew on Feb 17, 2008 5:03:15 GMT -5
An argument could be made for either side. If a manager wants to throw 8 first basemen into the field, then he'll have to live with the terrible fielding.
However, I would like to keep things as realistic as possible. I think positions changes should be proposed to you, The Commish, and then you decide on whether or not they're reasonable.
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Post by lakrsfn24 on Feb 17, 2008 13:08:29 GMT -5
Perhaps we should have a committee to decide these things, like an odd number of guys, say 3 people. Then they could vote on what they think is fair. For example, Omar Vizquel is and always has been a SS but does anyone think he'd be incapable of playing 2nd base? That's just an example off the top of my head, but my point is if we have a set number of guys to vote on this, it will make things easier.
Also, if one of the 3 guys wants a position change, then the commissioner could step in as the 3rd voter to keep all things equal. Just a thought.
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Post by rangersgm on Feb 18, 2008 14:26:12 GMT -5
I like the committee idea, although that seems like it would take a while.
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Post by The Commish on Feb 18, 2008 18:50:15 GMT -5
The real main issue that arises is with players that are DH's only in real baseball. Guys like Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and David Ortiz. These are guys that in real baseball would only have jobs in the AL because of the DH rule. Now, Mogul doesn't list players as DH's. Something Tony LaRussa Baseball used to do. The stats would reflect accordingly.
Ortiz is listed in Mogul as a 1b, so is Frank Thomas. Ortiz is rated as a mid 50's at the 1b position, but Thomas is listed as a 70.
Another guy that just for sake of this topic that is interesting is Albert Pujols who is listed as a 90 at 1b, a high 80 in the OF, and a 90 or high 80 at 3b...even though he hasn't played OF/3b positions for about 3 years now.
For example, would you guys think it fair for a team to draft Albert Pujols, shove him in LF, David Ortiz and play him at 1b (under the assumption that even rated at 50ish, his bat would outshine his defensive liabilities) and then draft I don't know, say Todd Helton and play him at 3b?
I would like some semblance of realism as well. There is no way in my mind that Pujols should be a starting 3b or OF'er unless it was for an emergency. I don't think David Ortiz should be an every day starting 1b...now, in the playoffs or in inter league play when your DH team can't use a DH, THEN I would say, yes, those players could play out of position.
I would like to see a team have an actual LF'er playing LF. An actual SS playing SS. Sure position changes happen, like Alex Rodriguez. But they are not extremely common. This wouldn't apply to bench players. Saying for instance you have a SS on your bench, he could act as your utility infielder, no problems. This is applying to your starting 8/9.
I would be way more lenient in having a LF'er convert to a CF'er or Cf'er to other OF position. OF slots are more or less interchangeable. That is not the case for the infield. A Catcher might be able to play 1b or 3b, but not the other way around. A SS could play 2b, and a 2b could play SS. But a 1b is usually playing 1b for a reason. He's not a gifted fielder anywhere else, but he can hit.
These issues should be ironed out now before the draft. This is basically your league, I am just running the show, so I want you all to decide what is fair.
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Post by brewcrew on Feb 18, 2008 22:47:09 GMT -5
I think you're starting to dig a little too much now. It's good to be concerned with manual position changes, but I wouldn't mess with the ratings BBM has given.
You used Pujols as an exmaple, and he has shown the ability to play those positions in the past. Also, it's not like other 1B's have that flexibility. I'd imagine Pujols is one of maybe 2 or 3 1B's that can play other positions well. So I don't think that's a big deal.
As far as Papi is concerned, I would actually argue that the 50ish rating he is given is pretty underrated. Clearly he can play the position. That being said, it will be at the manager's discretion if they want to use him. Plus, that would make Ortiz pretty much unavailable to the NL, which isn't really fair.
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Post by The Commish on Feb 18, 2008 23:49:50 GMT -5
I use Pujols because his ratings in Mogul make no sense at all.
He hasn't played the OF or 3b in 3 years. His numbers at those positions when he played are not good. How he rates that highly at those positions is beyond me. Mogul also rates Aubrey Huff as a good defensive 3b, which is hardly true. There is a reason why he moved around from 1b to the OF to 3b to 1b to DH. He can't field worth a lick. Ortiz played in inter league play and the playoffs at 1b because of his bat, not his glove.
David Ortiz is not underrated by any means. He can play 1b in the same notion that if we had to, you and I could play 1b. There is a reason why he doesn't start at 1b. He's not any good. If he were, he'd be playing 1b and not DH.
Regardless of what I think, this is a decision I will leave up to the league. If they all don't mind Albert Pujols shagging fly balls in LF then that is fine with me too. I just don't want people complaining about it after the fact and leaving the league due to issues like this. I wanted them cleared up before the league started so everyone knows what they are getting into.
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Post by cardinalsgm on Feb 19, 2008 1:06:23 GMT -5
I agree totally with Brew Crew. Regardless of personal opinion facts are facts. If mogul has a player muti-position its for a good reason not just because they want it that way. They should be able to be used how ever the GM would like.
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Post by The Commish on Feb 29, 2008 9:58:00 GMT -5
Cardinalsgm
We have been through this. Mogul does not have a good reason for rating players at certain positions. How is a guy that never played a position rated almost as good or better than some current players at the position. I just looked at the Orioles and Nick Markakis is rated very highly as a 1b. He's never, ever played that position in the majors or minors.
Pujols hasn't played the OF or 3b in about 3-4 years.
Kevin Millar is rated 100 for fielding....Kevin Millar! He's also rated very highly as an OF'er...which he barely even played for the Orioles.
Brew Crew is wrong. Almost every starting 1b is rated well enough to play in the OF. It is very common.
Like I said, switching a guy from CF to LF I have no problems with. I just don't want to see a 1b in LF, a 1b in RF, and another 1b playing 3b when none of those guys ever played those positions or haven't within the last 4 years on the same team. That is just abusing the system Mogul has.
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